Sonic the Fallen Hedgehog

I might as well start with the critique, with this thread.


When it comes to online-wars, the Sonic fanbase is probably one of the most known ones.
And even today, the wars rage on. (Which is stupid, if you ask me. But oh well...)

Either way, Sonic the Hedgehog is one of the most popular video game characters of all-time.
Best known as "Mario's rival".
But shortly after his transition to 3D, the fanbase started to split. And it started from here.
Many people started thinking that Sonic started to suck. While other people thought otherwise.
And fanboys were always hellbent on silencing any kind of criticism against Sonic from that point on. (Regardless, if it's valid or not)

And personally, I do agree that Sonic is not nearly as good as he used to be.
Why is that?

First of all, it's the Story I have an issue with.
Ever since "Shadow the Hedgehog" (horrible game BTW), the story has turned into something that no longer fits Sonic.
It has turned DARK. With DEATH, SUFFERING, DRAMA and other stuff like that.
Sonic the Hedgehog used to be a light-hearted game, like Mario.
Turning it into dark, is like making "Luigi's Mansion 2" like "Biohazard" (aka Resident Evil) with blood, zombies and gore.
And I am sure you agree that Luigi is not a suitable character for that kind of game.
Same thing applies to Sonic, who is NOT supposed to be a dark.

Classic Sonic fans also say that changing Sonic into living with humans also was a stupid move.
Since the plot of the Classic Sonic games had Eggman/Robotnik as only human.
And who represents humans and their environment-damaging way of life, while Sonic and his friends represent nature.
Though I don't mind the story of "Sonic Adventure 1", I gotta admit that it'a valid point.


Speaking of characters...
I seriously don't like most of the characters from "SA2" and everything that came after.
They either don't fit Sonic at all (Elise, Erazor Djinn, etc.) or they are so unoriginal that they fail automatically (Shadow, Eggman Nega, etc.).

Another issue that I have are the ATTITUDES.
Many characters act so different from their original self, that they can hardly be considered the same person anymore.
One example would be AMY ROSE.
Once an independant and strong girl, who is in love with Sonic, she became a lovesick girl, portrayed as a damsel in distress, who cannot defend herself (EVEN IF SHE HAS A MAGIC HAMMER!!!)!
IT MAKES NO SENSE!

But the biggest attitude change is probably, SONIC HIMSELF!
I see Classic Sonic as a cocky, but rational hero, who knows when to be serious and who knows what exactly happens if he fails.
But when I see Modern Sonic, I only see an idiotic blabbermouth, who seems to be so in love with the idiocity of his own voice.
It doesn't sound cool. It sounds stupid and annoying, to say the least.
Point is: Modern Sonic has become an immature, irresponsible and dumb hero, who doesn't know when to shut his mouth.
I wouldn't trust the well-being of my grandma to such a thing.


And then there was this one guy on DA, who made up a very good point.
Which is "Sonic is not about Speed!"
(And I am sure most of you know, who I am referring to)
And after doing some research, I really had to agree with that.

Classic Sonic games weren't about speed.
They wee about platforming, that makes use of momentum and realistic physics to get past certain obstacles.
The high speed was only a side-effect of that kind of gameplay.
And by himself, Sonic is not faster than Mario.

And today's games suck, because the gameplay is all messed up and automated.
Speed is now the main focus. And there what once were obstacles have now succumbed into something like "look cool while rushing through it".
And some moves were added that automate the game, taking away all of the challenge that the game could've offered.
In the end, you only have to hold one button or two and you win.

...
That it more or less the point of that person.
And you know, I have to agree with this.


One last kind of critique that the Classic Sonic fans state, is the Design of the two Sonic's.
But personally, the changed personality is much more aggravating to me that the design.
And I don't care much about that.
Though I agree that Classic Sonic looks better...


So I have done the start
Feel free to join at any time.

I agree 110%! You've summed up the main problems quite well! I don't really have much to add, and even if I thought of something, I'd just be repeating myself... which I currently don't feel like doing.

Nevertheless, well said!

Thanks. Much appreciated

You're welcome.

I agree with almost all of it, but...

Paragon-Yoshi wrote:
Classic Sonic fans also say that changing Sonic into living with humans also was a stupid move.
Since the plot of the Classic Sonic games had Eggman/Robotnik as only human.
And who represents humans and their environment-damaging way of life, while Sonic and his friends represent nature.

It can be implied to a point, but it doesn't seem like the type of tone Yuji Naka was going for. As far as the very first game was concerned, it felt more like something from Looney Tunes or Felix the Cat: a game that's not trying to be serious at all. I mean, you've got an Egg-shaped villain who uses ridiculous machines to stomp a single speedy critter. Sounds pretty Looney Tunes to me.

Sadly, this tone started to vanish very quickly. Tails, Knuckles, and the Death Egg started to make everything look more serious, and that SatAM cartoon didn't help, either.

Paragon-Yoshi wrote:
Another issue that I have are the ATTITUDES.
Many characters act so different from their original self, that they can hardly be considered the same person anymore.
One example would be AMY ROSE.
Once an independant and strong girl, who is in love with Sonic, she became a lovesick girl, portrayed as a damsel in distress, who cannot defend herself (EVEN IF SHE HAS A MAGIC HAMMER!!!)!
IT MAKES NO SENSE!

Actually, Classic Amy had zero personality and barely made any appearences, other than filling slots in spin-off games (racing and fighting). Unfortunately, compared to the personality she DID get in SA and onward, having a dull brick of a girl character wasn't as bad.

Maetch01 wrote:It can be implied to a point, but it doesn't seem like the type of tone Yuji Naka was going for. As far as the very first game was concerned, it felt more like something from Looney Tunes or Felix the Cat: a game that's not trying to be serious at all. I mean, you've got an Egg-shaped villain who uses ridiculous machines to stomp a single speedy critter. Sounds pretty Looney Tunes to me.

Sadly, this tone started to vanish very quickly. Tails, Knuckles, and the Death Egg started to make everything look more serious, and that SatAM cartoon didn't help, either.

Yeah, I see your point. And I have almost the same opinion as you.
Considering I only mentioned it as an opinion from other fans and not from me.

But I can also understand why those fans think that way.
It's their own take of the Classic Character cast. And it's one take that people can have.
Either way, it is strange that Eggman/Robotnik used to be the only human and then suddenly Sonic lived together with them...
Maybe an unnecessary retcon? I dunno...

Actually, Classic Amy had zero personality and barely made any appearences, other than filling slots in spin-off games (racing and fighting). Unfortunately, compared to the personality she DID get in SA and onward, having a dull brick of a girl character wasn't as bad.

I WAS referring to the SA1-Amy.
You are right with Classic Amy having barely any personality, other than being a fangirlish kid in love with her hero.
But oh well...

I totally agree, the new SEGA just has their heads far up their asses.

Sure we got Classic Sonic back, but thats only their plan to get the fans who left/fans that dislike modern Sonic and like Classic more, to come back and so SEGA can just take their money.. After Sonic Generatiions, there wont be anymore Classic Sonic.. It's just a sick plan that SEGA has made...

@ SonicUltimateFan

You know what's REALLY funny?

At the end of Sonic Generations, Modern Sonic says to Classic Sonic, "Hey Sonic! Enjoy your future, it's gonna be great!"

Irony at its finest, no?

Ugh, that's so stupid. First, Classic Sonic is older than modern Sonic (Sonic Jam says Classic Sonic was 16, and we all know that modern Sonic is 15), and Modern Sonic saying (Classic/the real) Sonic's future is gonna be great, where the hell is the logic.

Heh, we don't even need Jam to tell us that Classic Sonic is the older one, because everyone knows that Classic debuted in 1991 and Modern in 1999. So he's 8 years older than Modern Sonic anyway.

Actually, to be honest, I wouldn't listen to what the games say about his age, because even the game manuel for the Japanese version stated that he's 10 years old.

But I say it's all irrelevant if you ask me, because whether Modern Sonic is "Sonic grown up" or not, he's still an ugly resdesign and should go die in a fire.

Actually, to be honest, I wouldn't listen to what the games say about his age, because even the game manuel for the Japanese version stated that he's 10 years old.



The game manuel for Sonic 1, that is.

Since the plot of the Classic Sonic games had Eggman/Robotnik as only human.
And who represents humans and their environment-damaging way of life, while Sonic and his friends represent nature.

You're absolutely right.
The looney tunes comparison is completely wrong and absurd. Sonic was always epic from the very first game.

It's a fairly straightforward interpretation of the classic story of a lone hero's journey, on a quest to save his world. And, although the game's atmosphere is mostly cheerful and colorful, the story is actually pretty dark. We're talking about a mad scientist who's trying to turn every form of life on the planet into mindless drones that will do his bidding without question.

Sonic's quest has a goal: to reach his arch nemesis' fortress to put an end to his evil plans of planetary conquest. It's completely absurd to compare it to some bird who wanders around aimlessly just so that we can laugh at the silly coyote who's trying to catch him.

The awful AoSth cartoon was like that, but it really wasn't an accurate representation of what the games were like. It's wrong to say that the Genesis Sonic games have no plots; they have excellent plots. Just because they're straightforward and simple, that doesn't make them silly or nonexistant.

It's everything BUT a bunch of silly, funny, and barely connected misadventures. It's the epic journey of a hero to save his planet. It's a template that's been used in fiction for centuries, and for good reason. Because it's awesome, and it appeals to all of us.

I think most of us really have a firm grasp us to why Sonic has failed in the past few years as a character; most of us also have a pretty great understanding as to what makes him amazing.

I think an interesting topic to move onto that would be amazingly fresh for our group would be an observation and analysis of Robotnik as a character; what specific traits made him more menacing, what designs were the best and why and even his personality difference from the classics to the modern Era.

I believe that it has relevance to the fall of Sonic because he did change just as much and arguably more then Sonic.

Eternal Angel of Truth wrote:Sonic's quest has a goal: to reach his arch nemesis' fortress to put an end to his evil plans of planetary conquest. It's completely absurd to compare it to some bird who wanders around aimlessly just so that we can laugh at the silly coyote who's trying to catch him.

That's still what it boils down to: a single speedy critter outrunning and humiliating a supposedly-smart but hopelessly-ineffective adversary. The only difference is that Sonic is intentionally humiliating Robotnik to stop his evil plans instead of just running aimlessly.